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If "don't know mind,"exists, how come everyone is so sure of themselves?
4 years 8 months ago #113918
by Ona Kiser
Just that. I keep wondering. Lots of people seem terribly sure of themselves. Sometimes I'm quite sure of myself, sometimes not. But there seems to be a generally accepted idea that being sure of oneself is a very good thing, even if one is just making up nonsense. And there also seems to be a natural tendency to be attracted to people who seem very confident about their ideas, even if their ideas are nonsense.
And even people who talk about "don't know mind" or "not knowing" or similar concepts rarely say they don't know something. I'd be so awed to hear someone say "I have no idea" now and then! That's kind of cool! Imagine paying to go to a fancy teacher's retreat and he just sits there shrugging his shoulders!
Thoughts?
And even people who talk about "don't know mind" or "not knowing" or similar concepts rarely say they don't know something. I'd be so awed to hear someone say "I have no idea" now and then! That's kind of cool! Imagine paying to go to a fancy teacher's retreat and he just sits there shrugging his shoulders!
Thoughts?
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4 years 8 months ago #113919
by Chris Marti
Replied by Chris Marti on topic If "don't know mind,"exists, how come everyone is so sure of themselves?
I don't know what's going on with that.
4 years 8 months ago #113920
by Ona Kiser
You were on my short list of people likely to respond "I have no idea" or similar. lol.
Replied by Ona Kiser on topic If "don't know mind,"exists, how come everyone is so sure of themselves?
Chris Marti wrote: I don't know what's going on with that.
You were on my short list of people likely to respond "I have no idea" or similar. lol.
4 years 8 months ago #113924
by Shargrol
Replied by Shargrol on topic If "don't know mind,"exists, how come everyone is so sure of themselves?
A few ideas...
Yeah Ona, there is a tendency to want to be around people "who know" -- it's probably a child-relating-to-parent instinct. People would rather be with a proxy adult who knows/thinks for them, it's easy and comforting.
For the person that knows... usually it's over-compensating for a lack of knowing. "Here, let me say the one thing I know about the topic so that I cover up the 999 things I don't know. (And please, please, please don't ask a follow-up question!)"
For the really extreme/subtle instinct: if you can't be nothing you believe you need to be something, and the least you can be is "the one who knows."
Yeah Ona, there is a tendency to want to be around people "who know" -- it's probably a child-relating-to-parent instinct. People would rather be with a proxy adult who knows/thinks for them, it's easy and comforting.
For the person that knows... usually it's over-compensating for a lack of knowing. "Here, let me say the one thing I know about the topic so that I cover up the 999 things I don't know. (And please, please, please don't ask a follow-up question!)"
For the really extreme/subtle instinct: if you can't be nothing you believe you need to be something, and the least you can be is "the one who knows."
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4 years 8 months ago - 4 years 8 months ago #113925
by Chris Marti
Replied by Chris Marti on topic If "don't know mind,"exists, how come everyone is so sure of themselves?
I think this is actually pretty simple - it's security, comfort, and the like. Knowing makes us feel safe. Of course, it's mostly only thinking we know, but that's enough for the mind's desires. In the end, there is so little that is really and truly known. For me that's the whole point of keeping "Don't Know" in my heart and mind as much as I can.
Last edit: 4 years 8 months ago by Chris Marti.
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4 years 8 months ago #113926
by Chris Marti
Replied by Chris Marti on topic If "don't know mind,"exists, how come everyone is so sure of themselves?
Haha! I'm nothing if not predictable. Not knowable, of course, but predictableYou were on my short list of people likely to respond "I have no idea" or similar. lol.
4 years 8 months ago - 4 years 8 months ago #113927
by Kacchapa
Replied by Kacchapa on topic If "don't know mind,"exists, how come everyone is so sure of themselves?
Remembering my sitting this morning, I was struck that seeing without knowing is ... really important.
Frank Yang was saying that if you're still in separation it's a struggle to describe hints of non-dual, and once there's no separation it's effortless. My hunch is Frank can speak from that place. I don't know if that means he knows what he's talking about.
For me right now, not-knowing is ... Ended up selfishly deleting what I wrote for fear of calcifying it. Sorry.
Frank Yang was saying that if you're still in separation it's a struggle to describe hints of non-dual, and once there's no separation it's effortless. My hunch is Frank can speak from that place. I don't know if that means he knows what he's talking about.
For me right now, not-knowing is ... Ended up selfishly deleting what I wrote for fear of calcifying it. Sorry.
Last edit: 4 years 8 months ago by Kacchapa. Reason: Trying to elaborate
4 years 8 months ago #113933
by Tom Otvos
-- tomo
Replied by Tom Otvos on topic If "don't know mind,"exists, how come everyone is so sure of themselves?
This is a tough one for me. First, I get paid to know stuff. I help make decisions, and set directions, based on what I know. But I also notice when I speak "with authority", and sometimes there is discomfort there. Not from thinking that I am covering up not knowing (because I am acutely aware of how much I do not know), but from the perspective that knowing is not some privileged place, and that I should be helping others "know" something that I know, without taking that tone.
And it is tough because I should be more self aware, more mindful, to catch those times more often. And it reminds me how little I practice lately, to build that muscle.
And it is tough because I should be more self aware, more mindful, to catch those times more often. And it reminds me how little I practice lately, to build that muscle.
-- tomo